Re: [Salon] Three cheers for Victor Orban

<div dir="ltr">Orbán is an autocrat who is supported by others of like mind, including some in the United States, but he is pursuing Hungarian interests first. The Hungarian perspective is well outlined here: <a href="" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">https://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-hungary-sees-ukraine-conflict-205692</a></div><br /><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 10:51 AM Atwood, Brian via Salon <<a href="" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">salon@listserve.com</a>> wrote:<br /></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb( 204 , 204 , 204 );padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Yes, good point. He isn't defying the US. He is defying the EU! As usual playing the nationalist card. This guy is no democrat.</div><br /><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 10:48 AM Walter Nicklin <<a href="" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">walter@rappnews.com</a>> wrote:<br /></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb( 204 , 204 , 204 );padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>Orban's lone vote against EU aid to Ukraine as nothing to do with "courage" and very little to do with Ukraine. <div dir="auto"><br /></div><div dir="auto">Rather, it has everything to do with Orban's transactional play for EU funds that had previously been withheld by Brussels for his country's underming democratic rule of law standards expected of all EU members.</div><br /><br /><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Dec 7, 2022, 10:02 AM Winslow T. Wheeler via Salon <<a href="" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">salon@listserve.com</a>> wrote:<br /></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb( 204 , 204 , 204 );padding-left:1ex"><u></u><div id="m_-7493788552068622274m_3430417726952980307m_7238735346266049220MailContainerBody" style="color:rgb( 0 , 0 , 0 );padding-top:15px;padding-left:10px;font-family:'arial unicode ms';font-size:12pt;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;text-decoration:none"><div><div>It is mistake, I believe, and clearly a sign of our current political culture, to describe Orban as either a hero or a devil. He is a politician taking a hostage in return for something he wants. A colleague speculated that it is relief on energy prices
for Hungary, especially given the internal politics (in Hungary). That Orban is a right wing hegemon type commands which posture we take on him -- if you accept the binary political system we have embraced in this country where any idea is good or bad based
on whether you revile or adore Trump, for example. These selections of policy based on which altar you kneel at also becomes a sign post of your good standing in the tribe of your selection. Trump was right to try to get out of both Syria and Afghanistan;
sadly he was too mentally and morally weak to pull either off. Orban's tactic is crude, but I'll bet it pays off.</div><blockquote style="padding-right:0px;padding-left:5px;margin-right:0px;margin-left:5px;border-left:2px solid rgb( 0 , 0 , 0 )"><div style="font:10pt 'arial'">
----- Original Message ----- </div><div style="font:10pt 'arial'"><b>From:</b><a href="" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">
Atwood, Brian via Salon</a></div><div style="font:10pt 'arial'"><b>To:</b><a href="" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">
Gilbert Doctorow</a></div><div style="font:10pt 'arial'"><b>Cc:</b><a href="" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">
salon-request@listserve.com</a> ; <a href="" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">
salon@listserve.com</a></div><div style="font:10pt 'arial'"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 6, 2022 5:10 PM</div><div style="font:10pt 'arial'"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Salon] Three cheers for Victor Orban</div><div><br /></div><div dir="ltr">So Mr Doctorow is pleased that Victor Orban, a man who has done his best to destroy democracy in Hungary, now wants to deny Ukraine humanitarian assistance that will save lives. Of course there would be no need for assistance had Russia not invaded
a sovereign country. One loses credibility in characterizing that act as "bravery." Gilbert Doctorow provides a very unique perspective to Salon readers!</div><br /><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 4:08 PM Gilbert Doctorow via Salon <<a href="" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">salon@listserve.com</a>> wrote:<br /></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left:1px solid rgb( 204 , 204 , 204 )"><div><div style="font-family:'times new roman' , 'new york' , 'times' , serif;font-size:16px"><div dir="ltr"><a href="" rel="nofollow noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://gilbertdoctorow.com/2022/12/06/three-cheers-for-victor-orban/</a><br /></div><div><br /></div><div dir="ltr"><div><p><span lang="EN-US">Three cheers for Victor Orban!</span></p><p><span lang="EN-US">This evening news came that Victor Orban has blocked the EU appropriation of 18 billion euros in financial assistance to the Kiev regime for 2023. This one man stood up against the 26 conformists and cowards who head the other EU Member
States. Orban took this remarkable step, knowing the price to be paid for his insubordination, namely Brussels’ putting a block on Hungary’s 5.8bn euro worth of Covid-19 recovery funds. Nonetheless, he pursued the logic of his months-long attacks on EU policy
with respect to the Ukraine crisis as being utterly mad, leading Europe to economic suicide through its Russia sanctions.
</span></p><p><span lang="EN-US">One man against 26: what does that tell an unbiased observer? It suggests unbelievable courage of one’s convictions. And what does
<i>The Financial Times</i>, my marker for Western mainstream media, have to say about this display of courage? It offers its readers the following:</span></p><p><b>Russia expert András Rácz, of the German Council on Foreign Relations think-tank, described the veto as a “low point in Hungarian foreign policy</b><span lang="EN-US">”.</span></p><p><span lang="EN-US">“Low point”? On the contrary, I rate this as the high point of Hungarian foreign policy, which is built upon the interests of the Hungarian nation, not on servitude to the United States and preservation of American global hegemony at
the expense of all the rest.</span></p><p><span lang="EN-US">Orban’s principled action has to be placed alongside that of Turkish president Erdogan, who also has called out the rank stupidity of European policy with respect to the Ukraine conflict, who has gone directly against the United States
on questions of military procurement, and who is holding up NATO accession of Sweden and Finland to get satisfaction of his own demands relating to the political stability and security of his country. The comforting message in all this is that the world has
not gone entirely mad and reason may yet prevail against vile propaganda and the ‘go along, get along’ thinking.</span></p><p><span lang="EN-US">If I have to find some equivalent to Victor Orban’s brave stand in modern American political history, it would be the extraordinary stand of Senator from West Virginia Robert Byrd in eloquently opposing George Bush the Younger on the coming
U.S. invasion of Iraq in late 2002, early 2003. This is the pursuit of Veritas that gives me hope. If only my alma mater would take note!</span></p><p><span lang="EN-US">©</span><span lang="EN-US">Gilbert Doctorow, 2022</span></p><p><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p></div><br /></div><div><br /></div></div></div>
-- <br />
Salon mailing list<br /><a href="" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Salon@listserve.com</a><br /><a href="" rel="noreferrer noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mlm2.listserve.net/mailman/listinfo/salon</a><br /></blockquote></div>
-- <br />
Salon mailing list<br /><a href="" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Salon@listserve.com</a><br /><a href="" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mlm2.listserve.net/mailman/listinfo/salon</a><br /></blockquote></div></div>