Re: [Salon] Three cheers for Victor Orban



Europe mismanaged integration. Orban is a symptom of that.  See for discussion of that.
http://technologygovernance.eu/files/main/2006042407120202.pdf
European Integration, Innovations and Uneven Economic Growth: Challenges and Problems of EU 2005


On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 10:17:54 PM GMT+5, Chas Freeman via Salon <salon@listserve.com> wrote:


Orbán is an autocrat who is supported by others of like mind, including some in the United States, but he is pursuing Hungarian interests first.  The Hungarian perspective is well outlined here: https://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-hungary-sees-ukraine-conflict-205692

On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 10:51 AM Atwood, Brian via Salon <salon@listserve.com> wrote:
Yes, good point. He isn't defying the US. He is defying the EU! As usual playing the nationalist card. This guy is no democrat.

On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 10:48 AM Walter Nicklin <walter@rappnews.com> wrote:
Orban's lone vote against EU aid to Ukraine as nothing to do with "courage" and very little to do with Ukraine. 

Rather, it has everything to do with Orban's transactional play for EU funds that had previously been withheld by Brussels for his country's underming democratic rule of law standards expected of all EU members.


On Wed, Dec 7, 2022, 10:02 AM Winslow T. Wheeler via Salon <salon@listserve.com> wrote:
It is mistake, I believe, and clearly a sign of our current political culture, to describe Orban as either a hero or a devil.  He is a politician taking a hostage in return for something he wants.  A colleague speculated that it is relief on energy prices for Hungary, especially given the internal politics (in Hungary).  That Orban is a right wing hegemon type commands which posture we take on him -- if you accept the binary political system we have embraced in this country where any idea is good or bad based on whether you revile or adore Trump, for example.  These selections of policy based on which altar you kneel at also becomes a sign post of your good standing in the tribe of your selection.  Trump was right to try to get out of both Syria and Afghanistan; sadly he was too mentally and morally weak to pull either off.  Orban's tactic is crude, but I'll bet it pays off.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2022 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Salon] Three cheers for Victor Orban

So Mr Doctorow is pleased that Victor Orban, a man who has done his best to destroy democracy in Hungary, now wants to deny Ukraine humanitarian assistance that will save lives. Of course there would be no need for assistance had Russia not invaded a sovereign country. One loses credibility in characterizing that act as "bravery." Gilbert Doctorow provides a very unique perspective to Salon readers!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 4:08 PM Gilbert Doctorow via Salon <salon@listserve.com> wrote:

Three cheers for Victor Orban!

This evening news came that Victor Orban has blocked the EU appropriation of 18 billion euros in financial assistance to the Kiev regime for 2023.  This one man stood up against the 26 conformists and cowards who head the other EU Member States.  Orban took this remarkable step, knowing the price to be paid for his insubordination, namely Brussels’ putting a block on Hungary’s 5.8bn euro worth of Covid-19 recovery funds. Nonetheless, he pursued the logic of his months-long attacks on EU policy with respect to the Ukraine crisis as being utterly mad, leading Europe to economic suicide through its Russia sanctions.

One man against 26: what does that tell an unbiased observer? It suggests unbelievable courage of one’s convictions.  And what does The Financial Times, my marker for Western mainstream media, have to say about this display of courage?  It offers its readers the following:

Russia expert András Rácz, of the German Council on Foreign Relations think-tank, described the veto as a “low point in Hungarian foreign policy”.

“Low point”?  On the contrary, I rate this as the high point of Hungarian foreign policy, which is built upon the interests of the Hungarian nation, not on servitude to the United States and preservation of American global hegemony at the expense of all the rest.

Orban’s principled action has to be placed alongside that of Turkish president Erdogan, who also has called out the rank stupidity of European policy with respect to the Ukraine conflict, who has gone directly against the United States on questions of military procurement, and who is holding up NATO accession of Sweden and Finland to get satisfaction of his own demands relating to the political stability and security of his country.  The comforting message in all this is that the world has not gone entirely mad and reason may yet prevail against vile propaganda and the ‘go along, get along’ thinking.

If I have to find some equivalent to Victor Orban’s brave stand in modern American political history, it would be the extraordinary stand of Senator from West Virginia Robert Byrd in eloquently opposing George Bush the Younger on the coming U.S. invasion of Iraq in late 2002, early 2003. This is the pursuit of Veritas that gives me hope. If only my alma mater would take note!

©Gilbert Doctorow, 2022

 



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