All of which is to point out that the “Conservative Movement” and its ideologues, stood/stands against everything the Committee for the Republic professes to stand for! And no amount of "Right-revisionism” can change those facts, notwithstanding “opinions” attempting to “revise" those facts.
On Aug 28, 2023, at 8:56 AM, Warren Coats via Salon <salon@listserve.com> wrote:
More reflections on the Vietnam war
In the mid 1960s I was a member of the Free Speech Movement Council (by virtue of being President of the Berkeley University Conservatives). We all believed in free speech back then. We took Barry Goldwater’s assessment of the Vietnam War as a call to withdraw (it did not met his requirements of American interest needed to stay and fight decisively). He was surely right. It was a turbulent time at Berkeley but I did enjoy the free concerts Joan Baez gave on the steps of Sproul Hall every Friday.
Warren
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On Aug 28, 2023, at 9:32 AM, Tom Pauken via Salon <salon@listserve.com> wrote:
The blanket assertion that all commanders in Vietnam were “stupid” is evidence of one who knows little about the situation on the ground in Vietnam as of the late 1960s. General Abrams, who replaced Westmoreland, understood the seriousness of the situation there as did Colonel Lee whom I served under at J2, Strategic Research & Analysis and many other of our military leaders. The strategic mistake had been made years earlier, in 1963, when Roger Hilsman and Averill Harriman, engineered a coup—the overthrow of President Diem and his replacement by Big Minh, who had Diem and his brother assasinated the following morning. Before, we were just advisors in Vietnam. Afterwards, it became America’s war. By the way, those knowledgeable (and on the scene) like Edward Lansdale, Sir Robert Thompson, and William Colby, were all opposed to the overthrow of President Diem. (I understand Vice President Johnson was against it, also). Big Minh was put in Diem’s place , but was gone months later. He later surfaced as President to sign the surrender documents in 1975 to the North Vietnamese Communists. There was a lot of stupidity going on when it comes to Vietnam, not just from elements in the military. The American media (particularly the New York Times which encouraged the replacement of Diem) got it mainly wrong as did McNamera and his civilian whiz kids with their flawed strategy as to to wage the war. But Hilsman and Harriman did the most serious damage with their shortsighted call to get rid of President Diem. The history of that period is best laid out by Canadian historian Geoffrey Shaw in his book “The Lost Mandate of Heaven: The American Betrayal of Ngo Dinh Diem.” Tom Pauken Sent from my iPad On Aug 28, 2023, at 1:49 AM, Edward Hughes via Salon <salon@listserve.com> wrote:
Hi Todd - thanks for explaining things to me but I fail to see the element of scorn in referring to Prof Brennan as "the good professor." In any case you are right that many objections to the conduct of the war in Vietnam have been along the lines that if we had applied the full might of our military power, presumably including bombing them into the stone age, we would have won. Not quite the "stab in the back" but close to it.
Dear Edward,
How long of a list did he need to provide before you don’t scornfully mock him as the “good professor?”
Knowing the insightful Professor somewhat, and his political positions, I know he would be critical of 1, 2, and 3, below as well! And smart enough to recognize that they’re “part of a pattern,” daisy-chained down to the present, with the “Final Stage” the War for Eurasia, as British and American “Strategists” called for since the 19th century. And guess what? Variations of the theory are taught in U.S. military schools as “Strategy,” even more today, as Huntington and others of his ilk are taught, along with such Imperialistic War Plans as the "Pentagons’ New Map,” as it was on all the four-stars reading lists only a decade ago, if not still on them.
And to # 4, I suggest a course in “critical reading” for you, and to read the "original source” of what politicians say, and not what their opponents say. How was it "Trump’s goal to dissolve NATO,” when he was twisting European arms, and sending underlings for that purpose, for them to "pay more tribute,” 2% of GNP or more (see DeSantis, the so-called “Ukraine War Opponent, calling for the same, and that other clown on stage earlier this week, pulling the wool over so many people’s eyes who believe their lies that they oppose US wars, as they believed Trump’s lies), to what is in fact, simply a "U.S. Supreme Military Command," always under the Command of a U.S. four-star officer. Like two in particular notable for their active war-incitement provocations, the war-fevered AF General Philip Breedlove and Admiral James Stavridis, serving as the U.S. Satrap in Europe as "Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR)," which includes a s the "commander of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization's (NATO) Allied Command Operations (ACO) and head of ACO's headquarters, Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe(SHAPE)."
All of which is arrayed against Russia (and China/Iran) with both Breedlove and Stavridis both regularly having engaged in deliberate provocations of Russia. Just as one would have expected German military leaders to act in proximity to France and Poland in 1938-early 1939.
Here is the definition of “stupid” a friend who worked in the highest echelons of the USG during “Wartime” of the past 20+ years, shared with me to describe our current “Leaders.” He wrote: "But “‘stupid' in its Latinate sense, i.e., always seeking the unwise. Not dumb -- they are not incapable of thought or analysis -- instead they use what they think for unwise ends.”
I have to ask, did you even read this piece to the end, like so many here don’t when they can’t get beyond the first two lines, especially when they encounter a four or five syllable word?
*Vietnam is the central reference point for McMaster’s strategic perspective. He wrote his doctoral dissertation at Duke on the topic – the work that has given him the reputation of being the best mind in the Army – the embodiment of the “soldier-scholar.” The book’s thesis is that the uniformed military’s leaders failed in their duty by not remonstrating against Lyndon Johnson misrepresentation of conditions in Vietnam. The premise is that they had an accurate, unbiased understanding while Johnson was a chronic liar who had his political image foremost in mind. This is a very dubious proposition. The top United States’ commanders in Vietnam were as blind to realities as were the civilians in Washington. Their lying about capabilities (theirs and the Communists), the battlefield picture, and what was going down became proverbial. The daily briefing at command headquarters in Saigon was universally called the “Saigon follies’ by the press corps. Today’s daily follies heralding successes in Ukraine is a moveable feast offered at the White House, State, the Pentagon, and at every media site. The difference is that today’s ‘reporters’ don’t recognize the folly, nor dare announce it in the very rare instances that they do.
A wild guess, but perhaps you believed the “myth” perpetrated by so many journalists that McMaster, and Kelly, the SouthCom Commander who commanded Guantanamo as a torture site and standing war crime, were the “Adults in the Room.” And failed to notice that there is no "immutable law” that any one in the “room” must be an “adult.” With the Pentagon and CIA both as proof of that!
And in journalistic ignorance, everyone failed to see that McMaster’s main complaint against the JCS was that they failed to demand even more U.S. troops be sent to Vietnam. Which would have compounded what was clearly an unwinnable war from the start, if one is capable of a level of thought to know that only annihilation with nuclear bombs would succeed in getting the Vietnamese people to accept more imperialistic control of their country, exercised by what was in fact a brutal U.S. military occupation. But that’s what “Traditional Conservatives” like Goldwater called for, with his ideological successors now running both parties, as the “War Party,” the dream party of the Conservative Movement.
So step right up; you’re all Goldwaterites/Reaganites now!
Showing that the kind of “stupidity” the US is afflicted with goes far beyond our politicians and military leaders but seeps down to the lowest levels as virtually all of us have the conceit that we’re the Exceptional Nation, and “God,” or a substitute, has chosen us to rule the world. Just as Germans and Japanese once had the same conceit.
And let's not forget the following monumental manifestations of stupidity that the good professor fails to mention: 1. President Nixon's pledge to end the Vietnam War by "Peace with Honor" which cost 26,000 American lives over the course of 6 years and ended with a retreat/evacuation that makes Afghanistan look like a Balanchine-choreographed ballet 2. President Regan's programs to fund the Nicaraguan "contras" but selling arms to the terrorist Iranian regime and to the murderous Colombian drug cartels who then, armed with US supplied munitions, inflicted terror and destabilized Central and South American countries and fostered a drug epidemic that took untold American lives. Just say no indeed. 3. President Bush's war in Iraq, unprovoked, a war that intended to accomplish nothing more than to boost Bush's popularity but cost 4,400 American lives and destabilized the Middle East for another century. 4. President Trump's goal to dissolve NATO which signaled to Putin that he could advance his expansionist goals without resistance and opened the way to his invasion of Ukraine. Stupidity does not recognize political affiliation.
Michael Brenner
ON STUPIDITY
Stupidity, stupidity everywhere – and not a word to witness.
“Stupid”
is a commonplace term casually used in every-day conversation. Much
less so in writing
– especially when the subject is political personalities. It is heavily
weighted with inhibition. Why this hesitation? Why at a time when there
is more manifest stupidity in speech and action, by far, than in
recorded American history?
“Stupid”
is both blunt and conclusive. Straight-forward Anglo-Saxon. It does not
welcome qualification
or discussion. It implies: matter settled, closed. Moreover, it
suggests a character flaw as well as inadequate intelligence. That
somehow makes us uncomfortable. So we prefer: dense, slow, dim or
dim-witted, or elaborate euphemisms, e.g. “not the sharpest
tool in the kit,” or “out of it.” There
are words that disparage intelligence that are even sharper or stronger
than “stupid.” Think of these: blockhead, lamebrain,
numbskull, In addition, there are those that refer directly to
intelligence: moron, imbecile, idiot. They, too, are in currency but
suffer from the disability of taking in vain a descriptive word that
refers to the poor souls who are born with mental deficiencies.
“Stupid”
is used as an epithet 95% of the time. Not as a depiction of someone’s
Intelligence
Quotient (IQ). To do so in the latter sense is to complicate matters.
Intelligence, as we now are aware, is a broad concept that covers 4 or 5
or 6 mental attributes whose correlations are quite low. So, almost no
one thinks that through before throwing the
word around. To the degree that one might consider basic meanings, it
implies lack of logic – the core characteristic of conventional IQ
intelligence.
Squirt
kerosene on a simmering barbecue
– that’s stupid. Sending more troops to Afghanistan when you’ve failed
miserably to achieve your objective over the past 8 years with much
larger contingents – as
Obama
did in 2009 – is stupid, i.e. illogical. Threatening North Korea with a
military strike by a naval task force and sending said task force in
the opposite direction is stupid, i.e. illogical. Bestowing praise and
honors on the Saudi leaders as declared brothers
in the “war on terror” when in fact these very persons have done more
to propagate the fanatical creed that inspires and justifies acts of
terror is stupid, i.e. “illogical.” However,
they do not derive from sub-par intelligence in the IQ sense.
These
instances of stupid behavior draw us to the connections between
intelligence and knowledge
– between “stupidity” and “ignorance.” Stupid (illogical) behavior is
more likely when you don’t know what you’re doing because important
information is lacking. Here, though, the information at the heart of
logical thinking is known to the parties taking
those actions. Not just accessible – it is lodged (somewhere) in the
brain of the actor. “Dumb” in popular usage is the word that combines
“stupid” and “ignorant” – with the connotation that the ignorance is
willful. That notion is of cardinal importance.
Obama’s decision to instigate the Maidan Coup in 2014 had nothing to do wit
h
IQ. Rather, it was a matter of flawed judgment. Similarly, his decision
to abet the jihadi
controlled opposition to Assad in Syria, with all its dire
repercussions, derived from a fundamentally flawed understanding of the
forces in play and a very narrow strategic perspective. Bill Clinton’s
plan to unleash the financial predators who gave us the
great Wall Street crash by repealing the Glass-Steagall Act stemmed
less from irrationality than from ideological commitment to a dogmatic
market fundamentalist ideology reinforced by political corruption.
Assuming
that the “stupid’ actors are not mentally deficient, why do they act as
if they are?
That is the persistent question that crops us as we see and read the
antics of public officials, commentators, and a host of celebrity
personalities. Several explanations, not excuses, come to mind. Above
all, willful
ignorance is a form of stupidity.
The Biden people chose, in some sense, not to inform themselves about
the realities
of Russia’s resilient economy and political stability before embarking
on it woefully misguided strategy to cut the Putin regime down at the
knees by provoking the crisis in Ukraine. Equally, it put on blinders to
avoid seeing that the deepening Sino-Russian
partnership would be greatly strengthened by the plan to knock Moscow
out of the great power game before confronting the ultimate challenge
represented by China to America’s global hegemony. Intellectual laziness
of this sort is convenient in allowing a simplistic
– if mentally and comfortable - mindset to guide behavior undisturbed
by dissonant, more complex formulations of reality.
A
second noteworthy consideration is that some highly influential players
in the policymaking
game may be acting on an unspoken implicit logic that is not
acknowledged but salient for the person(s) involved. The Pentagon brass
may well have been less concerned about “winning” in Afghanistan,
whatever that means, than they were living with the intolerable
perception that they “lost.” No general cum security policy-maker wants
to be saddled with the label of “loser.” That sensitivity can become
generalized. Individuals like Generals Mattis and McMaster were in
little danger of being blamed for failure in Afghanistan.
What seems to have counted is that they did not want the U.S. military
to be stigmatized as a failure. They were acutely aware of how much the
image of the uniformed military suffered as a result of America losing
its first war in Vietnam. It follows that
they might hope against hope that the outcome in Afghanistan would be
fudged enough so as to escape that fate.*
There
is a practical side to this concern, too. Failure, as perceptive in the
public eye,
could tarnish the splendid image so successfully cultivated during the
“war on terror” era. That could translate into less support for bigger
budgets, less lucrative consultancies after retirement, and less
acclaim. And a weaker voice in policy debates.
A
second truth to keep in mind is that governments are plural nouns – or,
pronouns with multiple
antecedents. The numerous organizations, bureaucracies and individuals
involved in decision-making typically leads to a complicated process
wherein it is easy to lose track of purposes, priorities and
coordination. Where little discipline is imposed by the
chief, the greater the chances that the result will be contradictory,
disjointed, sub-optimal and often poorly executed policies.
We
can observe a related phenomenon of compounded ‘dumbness’ unfold on a
far grander scale
in regard to the Ukraine-plus exercise in fantasy strategy. There, in
the face of manifest failure to achieve the original objectives (and
suffering enormous collateral diplomatic damage - formation of the BRICS
counterforce to the collective West), our leaders,
joined by virtually the entire foreign policy community, plows ahead
heedless of the mounting costs, and the foredoomed plight of the
Ukrainian forces. This mindless behavior is rooted in a common inability
to contemplate not only a national failure of the
first magnitude, but also the need for a drastic reworking of
profoundly held beliefs about American singularity and predestined place
as global supremo.
All
of these adverse consequences are more likely to register, and actions
to be stupid, when
the man nominally in charge lacks the intelligence, emotional
stability, self-awareness and advisors to recognize either the
requirements for sound policy-making or for implementation. A lack of
capacity to accept responsibility and to be held accountable
exacerbates matters.
For
a President to avoid acting “stupidly,” he need not have an exceptional
IQ – or score remarkably high on other dimensions of intelligence. Two
things are most important: he must be honest with himself; and he must
put in place a policy system that is both logical in process and
self-aware as to why decisions are taken with what
end in mind. To
borrow an analogy from the football terminology favored in the
corridors of Washington power: you can win a championship with a
mediocre quarterback if the other pieces are in place (e.g. Bart Starr
of the legendary Green Bay Packers, Nick
Foles of the 2018 Super Bowl winning Philadelphia Eagles). A corollary
is that an emotionally handicapped or narcissistic quarterback – however
talented – will cripple a team sooner or later. One who suffers from
the latter condition(s), along with an utter
lack athletic talent, is a guarantor of disaster. “Stupidity” will be
the least of the derogatory terms applied to the ensuing performance;
that word should be reserved for those who chose him.
Moral:
we should not hesitate to call things as they are. Feigned politeness
in situations
marked by systematic deceit and ill-will serve no good purpose.
Concerned about the proverbial “dignity of the office?” Take your shoes
off before entering the Oval Office. If “stupidity” displayed by stupid
people it what we observe, virtue lies in calling
it as such.
*Vietnam
is the central reference point for McMaster’s strategic perspective. He
wrote his doctoral dissertation at Duke on the topic – the work that
has given him the reputation of being the best mind in the Army – the
embodiment of the “soldier-scholar.” The book’s
thesis is that the uniformed military’s leaders failed in their duty by
not remonstrating against Lyndon Johnson misrepresentation of conditions
in Vietnam. The premise is that they had an accurate, unbiased
understanding while Johnson was a chronic liar who had his political
image foremost in mind. This is a very dubious proposition. The top
United States’ commanders in Vietnam were as blind to realities
as were the civilians in Washington. Their lying about capabilities
(theirs and the Communists), the battlefield picture, and what was going
down became proverbial. The daily briefing at command headquarters in
Saigon was universally called the “Saigon follies’
by the press corps. Today’s daily follies heralding successes in
Ukraine is a moveable feast offered at the White House, State, the
Pentagon, and at every media site. The difference is that today’s
‘reporters’ don’t recognize the folly, nor dare announce it
in the very rare instances that they do.
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