Re: [Salon] What did Vladimir Putin say to Tucker Carlson? Five key takeaways

[Chas Freeman <cwfresidence@gmail.com>]

https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/key-points-from-tucker-carlson--interview-with-putin

Key points from Tucker Carlson's interview with Putin

On Thursday, American journalist Tucker Carlson aired his interview with Russian President Vladimir Putin, marking the first occasion of a Western journalist conducting such an interview since the launch of the special military operation in Ukraine in February 2022.

Putin explains 'history of Ukraine' 

During the interview, Putin began by outlining the centuries-old history of "Ukraine," claiming that the term originated from the Poles. He argued that the southern Russian territories, previously part of the Polish-Lithuanian state, were considered a suburb by the Poles.

"It didn't define it as belonging to any ethnic group," Putin told Carlson.

"What matters is that the war began and Poland fell prey to the policies it had pursued against Czechoslovakia. This under the well-known Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, a part of the territory including western Ukraine was to be given to Russia, thus Russia, which was then named the USSR regained its historical lands," said Putin.

"Romania and Hungary had some of their lands taken away and given to the Soviet Ukraine, and they still remain part of Ukraine. So in this sense, we have every reason to affirm that Ukraine is an artificial state that was shaped at Stalin's will," Putin explained.

'Coup in Ukraine provoked the conflict': Putin

Carlson asked Putin if he had suggested to Prime Minister Viktor Orban of Hungary that he could claim "part of Ukraine."

Putin responded unequivocally, stating, "never."
 
"In 2008, the doors of NATO were opened for Ukraine. In 2014, there was a coup. They started persecuting those who did not accept the coup. And it was indeed a coup. They created the threat to Crimea, which we had to take under our protection. They launched the war in Donbas in 2014 with the use of aircraft and artillery against civilians. This is when it all started," said Putin.

The President said that the coup in Ukraine was what provoked the conflict, adding that the CIA did its job to complete the coup.  

Putin wanted to negotiate settlement with Ukraine 

Putin further mentioned that he had engaged in multiple discussions with the US regarding the militarization of Ukraine by the West. He emphasized that Ukraine had begun preparations for military action.

The Russian president also clarified that he had desired to negotiate a resolution to the conflict in Ukraine.

"We prepared the huge document in Istanbul that was initialed by the head of the Ukrainian delegation. He had fixed his signature to some of the provisions, not to all of it. He put his signature and then he himself said, we were ready to sign it, and the war would have been over long ago. 18 months ago. However, Prime Minister Johnson came, talked Ukraine out of it and we missed that chance," said Putin.

Throughout the interview, Putin asserted that Ukraine decided to cease negotiations with Russia under pressure from the US.

De-Nazification one of Putin's goals

When asked about whether Russia has achieved its objectives, Putin responded that it had not yet done so, as one of its aims is de-Nazification, entailing the prohibition of all neo-Nazi movements.

He elaborated that Ukraine had sought to establish an identity after gaining independence, drawing upon individuals who had collaborated with Adolf Hitler as a basis for that identity.

'US promised NATO would not expand eastward'

Carlson then questioned the president if he had perceived a physical threat from the West, particularly from NATO, including the possibility of a nuclear threat. Carlson also inquired if this perceived threat had prompted Putin's actions toward Ukraine.

"The former Russian leadership assumed that the Soviet Union had ceased to exist and therefore there were no longer any ideological dividing lines. Russia even agreed voluntarily and proactively to the collapse of the Soviet Union and believed that this would be understood by the so-called civilized West as an invitation for cooperation and association. That is what Russia was expecting, both from the United States and this so-called collective West as a whole," said Putin.

Putin also added that the West had assured Russia that NATO would not expand eastward, yet it had occurred on five separate occasions.
 
"The promise was that NATO would not expand eastward. But it happened five times. There were five waves of expansion. We tolerated all that. We were trying to persuade them. We were saying, please don't. We are as bourgeois now as you are. We are a market economy and there is no Communist Party power. Let's negotiate," the president explained.

Clinton said 'Not possible for Russia to join NATO': Putin

The Russian president added that at the start of his presidency, he had asked former President Bill Clinton if it would be possible for Russia to join NATO.

"Well, I became president in 2000. I thought, okay, the Yugoslav issue is over, but we should try to restore relations. Let’s re-open the door that Russia had tried to go through," he explained.
 
"At a meeting here in the Kremlin with the outgoing President Bill Clinton, right here in the next room, I said to him, I asked him: 'Bill, do you think if Russia asked to join NATO, do you think it would happen?' Suddenly he said, 'You know, it's interesting. I think so.' But in the evening, when we met for dinner, he said: 'You know, I've talked to my team, no, it's not possible now.'”
 
Carlson pressed Putin, asking if he would have joined NATO had the former US president agreed at the time. Putin responded that it "might have happened," but he expressed no bitterness or resentment over the outcome.

'West is afraid of strong China'

Regarding China, Putin said that the West is more apprehensive about a potent Chinathan it is about a robust Russia, emphasizing China's vast population of 1.5 billion and its rapidly expanding economy.

When asked about the possibility of the Chinese economy overshadowing BRICS, Putin dismissed such concerns as "boogeyman stories."
 
"It is a boogeyman story. We're neighbors with China. You cannot choose neighbors, just as you cannot choose close relatives. We share a border of 1000km with them. This is number one. Second, we have a centuries-long history of coexistence. We're used to it. Third, China's foreign policy philosophy is not aggressive. Its idea is to always look for compromise. And we can see that."

'US blew up Nord Stream'

When asked who was responsible for blowing up the Nord Stream, Putin simply said the US, "for sure."

"But in this case, we should not only look for someone who is interested, but also for someone who has capabilities, because there may be many people interested, but not all of them are capable of sinking to the bottom of the Baltic Sea and carrying out this explosion. These two components should be connected. Who is interested and who is capable of doing it?"

On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 3:26 PM Chas Freeman <cwfresidence@gmail.com> wrote:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/9/five-key-moments-from-tucker-carlsons-interview-with-vladimir-putin

What did Vladimir Putin say to Tucker Carlson? Five key takeaways

Bill Clinton flip-flopping, releasing detained US journalist and US military aid to Ukraine were all on the agenda.

Russian President Vladimir Putin speaks during an interview with US television host Tucker Carlson in Moscow [Gavriil Grigorov/Sputnik via Reuters]

Published On 9 Feb 2024

On Thursday, President Vladimir Putin spent two hours being quizzed by former Fox News host Tucker Carlson in a highly anticipated TV interview.

The interview took place just ahead of the second anniversary of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and at a time when United States politicians are pushing to restore military funding to Ukraine.

Here are the five key takeaways:

Putin claims Clinton flip-flopped on Russia joining NATO

Putin revealed that, at some point, former US President Bill Clinton told him that Russia would have an opportunity to be welcomed into the military alliance, NATO.

“At a meeting here in the Kremlin with the outgoing President Bill Clinton, right here in the next room, I said to him, I asked him: ‘Bill, do you think if Russia asked to join NATO, do you think it would happen?’ Suddenly he said, ‘You know, it’s interesting. I think so,’” said Putin who was speaking through an interpreter.

“But in the evening, when we met for dinner, he said: ‘You know, I’ve talked to my team, no, no, it’s not possible now.’ You can ask him. I think he will watch our interview, he’ll confirm it,” the Russian president said.

“I wouldn’t have said anything like that if it hadn’t happened. Okay, well, it’s impossible now,” he added.

“Would you have joined NATO?” Carlson asked. “Look, I asked the question, is it possible, or not, and the answer I got was no,” Putin said.

“But if he had said yes, would you have joined NATO?” Carlson said.

“If he had said yes, the process of rapprochement would have commenced, and eventually it might have happened if we had seen some sincere wish on the other side of our partners. But it didn’t happen. Well, no means no. Okay, fine,” Putin said.

Putin also highlighted that they were promised that NATO would not expand to the East. “Not an inch to the East … and then what? They said, ‘Well, it’s not enshrined on paper, so we’ll expand.'”

“There were five waves of expansion. We tolerated all that. We were trying to persuade them. We were saying, ‘Please don’t. We are as bourgeois now as you are. We are a market economy, and there is no Communist Party power. Let’s negotiate’,” Putin added.

Former US President Bill Clinton (L) and Russian President Vladimir Putin confer during a ceremony to sign agreements on the establishment of a joint warning centre for the exchange of information on missile launches [File: Reuters]

Putin says Russia is open to releasing WSJ journalist

Putin said that it might be possible to free Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich, who is awaiting trial on spying charges, in exchange for a Russian prisoner.

The Russian president suggested that, in return, Moscow wanted Germany to free Vadim Krasikov, who was convicted of the 2019 murder of a Chechen dissident in Berlin.

Gershkovich was arrested on March 29, 2023 in the Urals city of Yekaterinburg and accused of trying to obtain defence secrets. He and his newspaper strongly reject the charges and the US government has designated him as wrongfully detained.

“We are willing to solve it but there are certain terms being discussed via special services channels. I believe an agreement can be reached,” said Putin, stressing that Western powers will have to take what he called “reciprocal steps”.

“There have been many successful examples of these talks crowned with success. Probably this is going to be crowned with success as well but we have to come to an agreement,” said Putin.

Russia and the US have agreed high-profile prisoner swaps in the past – most recently in December 2022 when Moscow traded Brittney Griner, a US basketball star convicted of a drugs offence in Russia, for Russian arms trafficker Viktor Bout.

Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich was detained in March while on a reporting trip and charged with espionage [File: Evgenia Novozhenina/Reuters]

Putin called any US military support of Ukraine a ‘provocation’

Carlson asked Putin: “Can you imagine a scenario where Russia is ready to send troops to Poland?”

“Only in one case if Poland attacks Russia, why? Because we have no interest in Poland, Latvia or anywhere else,” Putin said.

US politicians have said we “have to continue to fund the Ukrainian effort, or US soldier citizens could wind up fighting there. How do you assess that?” Carlson asked. That argument is based on the fact that Poland and the Baltic states are NATO members, and the alliance’s principle of collective security would kick in if any if them were attacked, necessitating US forces to intervene directly.

“This is a provocation. I do not understand why American soldiers should fight in Ukraine,” Putin said.

Russian President Vladimir Putin speaks during an interview with US television host Tucker Carlson in Moscow  [Gavriil Grigorov/Sputnik, via Reuters]

“Well, if somebody has the desire to send regular troops, that would certainly bring humanity to the brink of a very serious global conflict. This is obvious,” Putin added.

“Do the United States need this? What for? Thousands of miles away from your national territory. Don’t you have anything better to do? You’ve issues on the border, issues with migration, issues with the national debt… you have nothing better to do, so you should fight in Ukraine?

“Wouldn’t it be better to negotiate with Russia? Make an agreement. Already understanding the situation that is developing today, realising that Russia will fight for its interests to the end.”

Putin also said a solution would be possible if the US stopped supplying weapons.

“If you really want to stop fighting, you need to stop supplying weapons. It will be over within a few weeks, that’s it, and then we can agree on some terms. Before you do that, stop,” Putin said.

‘Who blew up Nord Stream?’ Putin suggests it was the CIA

Putin also blamed the CIA for the explosions of the Nord Stream pipelines, cutting off a major route for Russian gas exports to Europe and fuelling geopolitical tensions.

“Who blew up Nord Stream?” Carlson asked. Putin replied: “You, for sure.”

Carlson jokingly responded, “I was busy that day”. Putin said, “You personally might have an alibi, but the CIA has not such alibi”.

“Do you have evidence that NATO or the CIA did it,” Carlson said. The Russian president responded he “won’t get into details” but you should “look for someone who is interested” and who “has capabilities”.

Many people might be interested but not all “of them are capable of sinking to the bottom of the Baltic Sea and carrying out this explosion”, Putin said.

A gas leak from Nord Stream 1 is seen in the Swedish economic zone in the Baltic Sea in this picture taken from the Swedish Coast Guard aircraft on September 28, 2022 [Reuters]

Advances in AI and genetics are a threat, Putin said

Putin said the world is changing faster than “during the collapse of the Roman Empire”.

He also said: “Mankind is currently facing many threats due to the genetic researchers – it is now possible to create this superhuman. A specialised human being. A genetically engineered athlete, scientist, military man. There are reports that Elon Musk has already had the chip implanted in the human brain in the US.”

“What do you think of that?” Carlson asked

“I think there’s no stopping Elon Musk. He will do as he sees fit,” Putin said.

“Nevertheless, you need to find some common ground with him, search for ways to persuade him,” Putin explained.

He said that humanity needed to think about what to do about the advances in genetics and artificial intelligence and suggested the nuclear arms control treaties of the Cold War could be a guide.

“When there arises an understanding that the boundless and uncontrolled development of artificial intelligence or genetics or some other modern trends, cannot be stopped, that these researches will still exist just as it was impossible to hide gunpowder from humanity… when humanity feels a threat to itself, to humanity as a whole, then, it seems to me, there will come a period to negotiate at the interstate level on how we will regulate this,” Putin added.

Source: Al Jazeera and news agencies