Re: [Salon] Fwd: Tucker Carlson on X: "Ep. 75 The national security state is the main driver of censorship and election interference in the United States. "What I’m describing is military rule," says Mike Benz. "It’s the inversion of democracy

I have to admit to being amused by Trump’s use of Navalny as a verb, suggesting that he is being “navalnyed.”  I doubt Trump would survive prison any better than Navalny did, and the charges against him seem pretty dubious and obviously political. I’m not a  Trump supporter, fwiw. 

On Feb 22, 2024, at 3:03 PM, Soroush Richard Shehabi via Salon <salon@listserve.com> wrote:

Does the documentary address allegations about Navalny being a U.S. intelligence asset? (summarized at the end of a video Chas shared recently starting at minute 23:50 here): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VniH6Sgl8D4&t=59s


From: "Edward Hughes via Salon" <salon@listserve.com>
To: "Andrew Cockburn" <amcockburn@gmail.com>
Cc: "Warren Coats" <wcoats@gmail.com>, "Salon" <salon@committeefortherepublic.org>, "Chas Freeman" <salon@listserve.com>, "Wolfgang Wittenburg" <wwittenburg@shaw.ca>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 1:01:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Salon]         Fwd: Tucker Carlson on X: "Ep. 75 The national security state is the main driver of censorship and election interference in the United States. "What I’m describing is military rule," says Mike Benz. "It’s the inversion of democracy

I would highly recommend watching NAVALNY, the Oscar nominated documentary on Alexei Navalny and an intrepid investigative journalist.  The film  pulls back the veil on the thuggish and repressive practices that eventually lead to Navalny's death. I doubt it will be seen in Russia. 
Edward
edwhughes@gmail.com
+1 (617) 306 2577


On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 11:20 AM Andrew Cockburn via Salon <salon@listserve.com> wrote:
Any chance we could get Julian Assange to weigh in on this topic? Oh, wait...

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 11:06 AM Edward Luce via Salon <salon@listserve.com> wrote:
Chas, I always enjoy the breadth of stuff you disseminate and it's a great service. Thankyou. 

On this issue, however, the Mike Benzs and Tucker Carlsons and Clayton Morrises are Father Coughlin-level sources. Morris is literally a fraud (he fled lawsuits and now lives in Portugal). Benz is demented alt-right conspiracist, and Tucker Carlson, well I shouldn't need to characterize his untrustworthiness....

Compared to any other country in the world, formal censorship in the US is a red herring: I've never come across it in 20 years based here. To be sure the NYT and Wapo etc have their biases and have collectively got things badly wrong, such as the Iraq war. But big tech using their algorithms to tilt propaganda one way or another is the real issue. Right now Musk is skewing X towards Russian bots that spread the kind of demagoguery that you now seem to be saying we should seriously engage. The age we live in gives too much credence to charlatans. 


On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 at 09:49, Chas Freeman <cwfresidence@gmail.com> wrote:
No.  The collusion of communications oligopolies with government to enforce government and political correctness-preferred narratives by deplatforming nonconformist or politically offensive dissent and stifling policy debate is a serious problem that transcends ideology.

On Wed, Feb 21, 2024 at 8:38 PM Edward Luce <edward.luce@ft.com> wrote:
Is this stuff being posted ironically?



On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 20:31, Michele Kearney via Salon <salon@listserve.com> wrote:

Tucker Carlson just EXPOSED something incredibly terrifying inside the U.S. | Redacted News


On Wed, Feb 21, 2024 at 1:15 PM Michele Kearney <micheletkearney@gmail.com> wrote:

New Documents Show Government-Funded AI Intended for Online Censorship: They Can Then Use the Same Tool to Suppress, Silence, and Shut Down Whatever Speech They Don’t Like


On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 9:47 PM Michele Kearney <micheletkearney@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 4:36 PM Chas Freeman via Salon <salon@listserve.com> wrote:
This is basically what Benz is describing.

On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 4:04 PM Wolfgang Wittenburg via Salon <salon@listserve.com> wrote:

Maybe ‘no grand conspiracy’, but what about simply ‘institutional creep’ as in mission creep? Was Eisenhower’s concept of the ‘Military Industrial Complex’ a conspiracy theory too?

Wolfgang Wittenburg

 

From: Clyde Prestowitz <presto@econstrat.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2024 1:01 PM
To: Warren Coats <wcoats@gmail.com>; Chas Freeman <salon@listserve.com>; Chas Freeman <salon@committeefortherepublic.org>
Subject: Re: [Salon] Fwd: Tucker Carlson on X: "Ep. 75 The national security state is the main driver of censorship and election interference in the United States. "What I’m describing is military rule," says Mike Benz. "It’s the inversion of democracy

 

For what it’s worth, I’m with Jonathan on this.

 

From: Salon <salon-bounces@listserve.com> On Behalf Of Warren Coats via Salon
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2024 3:27 PM
To: Chas Freeman <salon@listserve.com>; Chas Freeman <salon@committeefortherepublic.org>
Subject: [Salon] Fwd: Tucker Carlson on X: "Ep. 75 The national security state is the main driver of censorship and election interference in the United States. "What I’m describing is military rule," says Mike Benz. "It’s the inversion of democracy

 

More on Carlson Benz interview  Jonathan Rauch offered the comments below.

 

Warren Coats
1211 S Eads St. #2101
Arlington VA 22202
Mobile 703 608-2975
http://wcoats.blog/  http://works.bepress.com/warren_coats/ https://twitter.com/wcoats2

 

 

 

Begin forwarded message:

 

From: Jonathan Rauch <JRAUCH@brookings.edu>

Subject: RE: [Salon] Tucker Carlson on X: "Ep. 75 The national security state is the main driver of censorship and election interference in the United States. "What I’m describing is military rule," says Mike Benz. "It’s the inversion of democracy

Date: February 18, 2024 at 2:58:25 PM EST

To: Warren Coats <wcoats@gmail.com>

 

Thanks. I probably won’t have time to play this through for a while, but from a skim of the transcript, I’d say it lacks credibility. There’s no government plot to censor the internet, and the government couldn’t do that if it tried. Benz, Shellenberger, et al. have been dishonest in their attacks on Renee DiResta (e.g. that she’s connected to the CIA), the Stanford Internet Observatory (that it’s a cut-out for the USG), etc. The New Yorker had an article a few months ago about this campaign to create a conspiracy narrative about internet censorship. Might be worth a look. Also, this. 

 

Government communication with social media companies is legit but should be done in a transparent, procedurally regular way, instead of via jawboning. So that needs to be fixed. Content moderation (“gatekeeping”) is unavoidable for media companies and unavoidably controversial, and that’s just a hard problem. But there’s no grand conspiracy.

 

FWIW.

 

Jonathan Rauch

Brookings | 202-695-3639

 

From: Warren Coats <wcoats@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2024 10:30 AM
To: Jonathan Rauch <JRAUCH@brookings.edu>
Subject: Fwd: [Salon] Tucker Carlson on X: "Ep. 75 The national security state is the main driver of censorship and election interference in the United States. "What I’m describing is military rule," says Mike Benz. "It’s the inversion of democracy

 

Jonathan,

What do you think of this?

 

Warren Coats

1211 S Eads St. Apt 2101

Arlington Va. 22202

(703) 608-2975 


Begin forwarded message:

From: Chas Freeman via Salon <salon@listserve.com>
Date: February 17, 2024 at 9:08:15 PM EST
To: graham <bozorgg@aol.com>
Cc: salon@listserve.com
Subject: Re: [Salon] Tucker Carlson on X: "Ep. 75 The national security state is the main driver of censorship and election interference in the United States. "What I’m describing is military rule," says Mike Benz. "It’s the inversion of democracy
Reply-To: Chas Freeman <cwfresidence@gmail.com>

This is a major story and I think it will have large legs.  It explains so much about what is now wrong with our democracy.  I note that Carlson's interview with Putin appears to have achieved 1 billion views.  This interview will be of far greater interest to Americans than to foreign audiences, many of which now regard us as evil and will, if they bother to view this at all, see it as corroborating their worst evaluations of our manipulation of both our own politics and the politics of other countries.

 

Chas

 

On Sat, Feb 17, 2024 at 8:57 PM graham <bozorgg@aol.com> wrote:

Hi Chas, don't know if you had a chance to listen to this whole thing, but I found it simply extraordinary. Dynamite.  From things I know from here and there over the years both in the agency and later in Washington it rings very true I found very little of the conspiracy mentality in the interviewee, it has huge explanatory power for some of my perplexity at the sweeping scope of US domination of the western narrative on Ukraine and other issues. 

 

Do you yourself take this guys story seriously? Will it have legs, or simply be stifled?

 

Graham

 

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