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Interviewer: 0:01
Now joining us for the program is Motee Abu Musabeh, a press TV correspondent, joining us from Deir Al-Balah; and Gilbert Doctorow, independent international affairs analyst, joining us from Brussels. Gentlemen, I'd like to welcome you both to the program here. I guess, Motee, we'll start with you there in Gaza, for the latest, please, if you could.
Musabeh: 0:21
Yes, actually, the Israeli genocide is still continued against the Gaza Strip, where several areas of Gaza Strip are under the relentless and intense Israeli airstrikes and attacks. And let me begin with the last Israeli airstrike that targeted an UNRWA school here in the central area of Gaza Strip, particularly Anusayati Fijid camp.
0:43
As the Israeli fighter drones attacked and targeted that school, claiming the lives of dozens of the Palestinian casualties, they were [removed] to the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital, as we are standing right now. It's another attack reaching the UNRWA evacuation centers in a continuation of this systematic attacks, this systematic strategy of attacks against the agency here in the Gaza Strip. And at the same time, it was reported that at least 30 Palestinian civilians were killed over the last night in Gaza City alone. After the Israeli occupation forces attacked the Palestinian civilians who were waiting for the humanitarian relief to reach Gaza City, the Israeli occupation forces attacked them mercilessly, claiming the lives of at least 15 Palestinian civilians out of them.
1:36
So the Israeli attacks are still continued and these airstrikes are covering all areas of Gaza Strip, not only here in the central area, Gaza City and even Khan Yunis City and Ra'afah City. They were under heavy bombardments and attacks of the Israeli occupation forces and evidentially the Israeli occupation forces crossed all red lines when it comes to the targeting of the Palestinian civilians here in the Gaza Strip, including the UNRWA agency evacuation centers scattered alongside the Gaza Strip.
Interviewer: 2:08
Okay, thank you, Motee. And I'd like to now [speak to] Gilbert Doctorow, independent international affairs analyst, joining us out of Brussels. Dr, a pleasure to have you on the program, sir. Now, when the Israelis brought these allegations that less than a handful of workers for UNRWA had some kind of ties with the Hamas operation on October 7th. And this is of a work force of between 20 to 30,000 people spanning three or four countries. The UNRWA leadership came out and said, "Look we have nearly 30,000 people we have a list that we gave the Jordanians, the Israelis, the Syrians, and the Lebanese, so they can do their own second batch of vetting if they so choose to. So there's really no excuse to cut funding."
3:00
Now, if you're the Israelis, you want to call it a war, you want to cut funding. But for you to implore your Western allies to do it, and for them to do it without a proper probe taking place-- I cannot imagine or I cannot stress how inhumane three-quarters or 99 percent of the world feels this move has been. Your initial thoughts on this?
Doctorow: 3:22
I agree entirely with your commentary. The question is when and how will this outrage of the majority of the world's population against the atrocities that Israel has committed daily with impunity, when will this translate into some constraining force that will change the direction of Israeli policy and bring them to heel?
3:46
That, as a layman, is what I think is the most important question on the minds of your listenership. And this brings me back, if you'll allow me, to the original Holocaust of Jews in Germany. The whole world knew, not to the extent that one can today with our technologies and communications, but those in power knew fairly well what was going on in the 1930s. Did they go to war with Germany over the atrocities and the murders that were taking place against minorities, of Jews and others? No, it didn't, of course.
4:23
It was the outbreak of World War II, for totally different reasons, that finally brought Germany to pay the price for the atrocities it had committed against Jews and other minorities on its territory and across Eastern Europe. That is the same situation that I see before us today. No one other than the Houthis who are not really a state power, has dared to raise a finger against Israel in a military way. Iran hasn't, Saudi Arabia hasn't, Qatar hasn't, nobody. And that is not a condemnation.
5:00
It's simply an acknowledgement that that's the way the world works, always has and always will. You have outraged people in the streets, you have people like myself, like your other interviewees who are outraged, but that does not bring Israel to heel. Israel will be brought to heel by the self-destructive policies of Mr. Netanyahu, who is trying to create a wider war. He might just succeed. His bombings in Lebanon might just succeed in bringing Hezbollah to a boiling point where it responds with a real war. And then, and only then, will Israel pay the price for its atrocities and be forced to become civilized again.
Interviewer: 5:45
Thank you. And Motee, right now, even before UNRWA loses its funding, before we see the true impacts, which is [what] we're supposed to see it in the next couple of weeks or so, when its funding all dries up-- I mean, we already know that they didn't have enough resources to deal with the demand there in Gaza. How desperate are things before the funding gets cut?
Musabeh: 6:12
First of all, let me say that according to the Palestinian people here and every rational individual across the globe that all these attacks against the UNRWA agency taking place here in the Gaza Strip amid this brutal aggression on the Strip are not taking place in vacuum. They are taking place in the political spectrum of the Israeli hardline government led by the war criminal Benjamin Netanyahu, which aims at liquidating the right of return to the Palestinian people, to their homeland.
6:43
And the Israeli occupation understands that having the mandate of the UNRWA agency working and available would remind the whole world [of] the right of return of the Palestinian people. This agency serves at least seven million Palestinian civilians, Palestinian refugees scattered across the globe. And having this agency dismantled means that there is no longer anything called the right of return to the Palestinian people.
7:13
We understand this as the Palestinian people. On the other hand, it's known that the UNRWA agency is the lifeline for the Palestinian people, particularly amidst this starvation that hits the Gaza Strip and used by the Israeli occupation as a weapon of war. So the Israeli occupation forces, since the very beginning of this genocidal war on Gaza, have been using the starvation and the catastrophe humanitarian conditions as a weapon of war against the Palestinian people.
7:41
So they want to deepen the abyss of the Palestinian people and to exacerbate the humanitarian conditions in order to twist the arm of the Palestinian resistance and [exert] more pressure on the Palestinian people here in the Gaza Strip in order to accept the de facto and the status quo that would be imposed by the Israeli occupation and backed by the US administration. So-- yes?
Interviewer: 8:04
Okay, Motee, we only have about a minute and a half left. Let me give my last question to Gilbert Doctorow. Now, Mr. Doctorow, okay, you're the West, you're not truly supporting a ceasefire. Why not at least support desperate women and children, and men, getting their hands on food, getting proper shelter, getting proper medication? Because they are, you know, refugees that your policies created, refugees that are living in the situation they're living because you put them there, to create room for your Israeli colony project.
Doctorow: 8:41
Since the start of this war, is there an unraveling of the Zionist ideology, its exposure to the broad public for what it is, which has been a kind of apartheid and a vicious end game that its proponents have been pushing for. As I say, this war will end after this war expands. And the war is expanding in ways that are not obvious to your audience. The Houthi capabilities, not just to fire rockets, but to sink ships, which we saw in the last week, attest to me of a change in the missiles and intelligence that they are using. And my guess is that Russia is behind them in a proxy war with the UK and the United States. That's a change in the nature of the war in West Asia, which we have to watch very closely.
Interviewer: 9:44
All right, John. I thank you both for joining us. Sorry, but time has gotten the better of us.