“The events since October 7 have been absolutely overwhelming. And that means they are overwhelming for everybody, but particularly for the people who are experiencing them, those who are suffering. The victims. It’s regularly said that October 7 represented the greatest killing of Jewish people since the Holocaust. And that’s correct. What’s said less frequently is that the killing of Palestinians since then represents the greatest Slaughter of Palestinians in their recorded history.”
– Chris Sidoti, UN Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory including East Jerusalem and Israel, in an interview with ABC news reporter Joe O’Brien.
Transcript continues:
Chris Sidoti: And so there is a lot of suffering to go around people are suffering in Israel and the Jewish diaspora. Palestinians in Palestine and in the Palestinian diaspora are also suffering greatly. And our Lebanese people as well. It really is absolutely overwhelming
Joe O’Brien (ABC): Okay so to the detail of your report now and firstly to the accusations against Israel: What led you to the very clear conclusion that Israeli security forces are responsible for war crimes and crimes against humanity?
Chris Sidoti: The evidence.
The evidence led us to that conclusion.
We work by collecting evidence. First we don’t make any assumptions. In fact I’d go so far as to say that we are inherently skeptical of all assertions made by any of the actors. In these particular circumstances we take everything with great skepticism and we seek the facts ourselves. So we collect the evidence first, we make conclusions about what the evidence indicates. Do findings of fact. Then we apply the law to it and we make our legal statements. In this case the evidence was overwhelming.
Our last report in June looked at the circumstances in southern Israel on the 7th and 8th of October and the violence of the Palestinian armed groups it also looked at events in Gaza from those dates 7 October until the end of 2023 and we found in both cases the commission of the most serious war crimes.
Our latest report, as you indicated Joe, released a couple of weeks ago looks at three issues. The destruction of the Health Care system in Gaza, the treatment of Palestinian detainees and prisoners in Israel and the treatment of Israeli hostages in Gaza. And in each case again we have found the commission of the most serious war crimes and crimes against humanity.
In relation to the Health Care System we have found intentional concerted efforts to destroy the Health Care system in Gaza.
That’s putting it very boldly but those are the facts. The destruction of hospitals clinics, other forms of Health Care Centers, ambulances and the killing of literally hundreds of doctors and health care workers.
We found war crimes and crimes against humanity in relation to the Israeli treatment of prisoners. The fact that they are tortured and mistreated, denied adequate food and access to Medical Care, subjected to sexual violence including rape.
And we made similar findings in relation to the treatment of the Israeli and foreign hostages in Gaza. Again, killing, torture and mistreatment, sexual violence, deprivation of adequate food, water and health care.
So the situation is truly overwhelming.
Joe O’Brien (ABC): Israel argues that you are biased and that this is a blatant attempt to obstruct its right to defend its population. What do you make of Israel’s argument that Hamas hides among civilians and health facilities and that Hamas is responsible for those deaths because of that tactic?
Chris Sidoti: Well, first, Hamas is not responsible for the deaths.
One of the issues that we addressed in our report in June was that the whole strategy behind the Israeli campaign in Gaza, that is the basic modus operandi of the fighting, has been such as to violate fundamental principles of international humanitarian law.
The lack of distinction between civilians and combatants, the lack of proportionality, the unreasonableness of the responses.
These principles apply regardless of the situation on the ground and Israel has violated those principles. Principles we’ve looked at, the issues about the use of human shields, if you like, the violation of civilian property by Hamas. We have found some evidence of that, but only limited evidence.
One difficulty we faced is the non-cooperation, indeed the obstruction by the Israeli authorities.
They denied us access to the evidence that they have and denied us the opportunity to go and see for ourselves. So we were looking at those issues with one hand tied behind our backs and it was difficult to do so. So we found some evidence, but we were unable to come to any conclusions as to the extent of that.
The simple fact though, the bottom line, is that war crimes are being committed at a scale that is extreme under any circumstances.
Not just relative to past conflict in the region, but under any circumstances.
Joe O’Brien (ABC): So what do you hope will come of this report in terms of action?
Chris Sidoti: Well to be blunt we don’t expect any positive response from the Israeli government and the Israeli authorities.
What we look for is a response from the International System, from the United Nations and individual states.
The international court of justice has issued the most authoritative ruling possible on the situation. It has found the occupation to be unlawful, the Israeli settlements to be unlawful. It has called for the end of the occupation as rapidly as possible, and the withdrawal of the Israeli settlements and the settlers, and reparations for the Palestinian people.
We want to see individual states like Australia and the United Nations system responding comprehensively to this authoritative decision of the International Court of Justice.
The situation in Israel and Palestine has its origin in the resolution of the United Nations in 1947. This has been a responsibility of the International System since then, and there’s no way that we can walk away from it. There’s no way that we can say it’s just too difficult.
So Australia and other states need to look at what they can do to influence the situation, to implement the decisions of the International Court of Justice.
Joe O’Brien (ABC): Do you believe Australia has acted adequately up until now?
Chris Sidoti: No it hasn’t.
It hasn’t. There is much more that can be done.
I think it’s good that Australia has been more critical than in the past of the nature of the fighting that is going on, and has expressed greater support than in the past for the suffering both of Israelis and Palestinians. There’s not much influence that we can have compared to some other states, for example the United States and the European Union but we can do far more than what we have done to date.
Joe O’Brien (ABC): for example?
Chris Sidoti: Well, for example – examining the nature of Australia’s relationships with Israel and Israeli organisations, companies and businesses, and particularly settlements.
The International Court of Justice has said that no States should be aiding or assisting the continuation of the occupation or the maintenance of the settlements.
We have an obligation, we Australians, to examine the nature of our relationships and ask searching questions about whether any of those relationships are contributing to the maintenance of the occupation or the continuation of the settlements.
So that means examining defence relationships, trade and other economic relationships, political and diplomatic relationships and cultural relationships.
It’s all about inducing the state of Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories. To end the occupation to evacuate the settlers and allow Palestinian self-determination.
Joe O’Brien (ABC): What do you make of some of the images that we’ve seen coming out of Gaza since your report was released just in the last two weeks?
Chris Sidoti: Well the images coming out of Gaza are horrific and the offensive, the latest offensive in Northern Gaza, has been as bad as any during the course of the War.
The killing at the beginning of October, November last year was very high. It is still high, but it’s again starting to increase and approach the levels of those first couple of months.
So the images are horrific and the suffering of people in Gaza is Unbelievable.
I’m particularly distressed when I read about and see what is happening to children.
There have been over 13,000 children killed in Gaza since the 7th of October last year. Of those, around 800 are under the age of one.
Now of – of all the things that are happening, it’s that that overwhelms me most.
Joe O’Brien (ABC): Can you see a time when the two sides will live together peacefully side by side there?
Chris Sidoti: It has to happen.
I mean can I see it? I don’t know when, but there is no other resolution of this issue. None other at all. There have to be two states living together side by side in peace, prospering together.
That was a decision taken by the United Nations in 1947 and it has still not been implemented.
There is no other solution. There’s no other resolution to this conflict.
First published by ABC news: Oct 23, 2024.