We need our diplomats to engage with adversaries and non-aligned countries, not simply to consort with close allies.
It is arguably Ukraine (clearly a victim of Russian aggression) that has paid the highest price for several years of US refusal to engage diplomatically with Moscow - not to mention our falsely and repeatedly raising expectations of Nato membership.
We had more diplomatic guts with the Soviets during the Cold War. And of course we have often talked with other great powers about third countries without them in the room. It's not a sin but a necessity at times, and our prerogative. The US is allowed to have its own national interests and to advance them.
Those who complain that Washington has just now undermined Europe on security policy toward Ukraine forget that the US assiduously worked to undermine the German/French-led EU Association Agreement talks with Ukraine (which was seen as an alternative to NATO) and subsequently did the same to the European-brokered Minsk Accords.
It is cruelly ironic that the upstart Zelenskiy won an overwhelming presidential election over Washington's preferred candidate, the incumbent Poroshenko, partly by campaigning on implementation of the stalled Minsk Accords. Macron tried to bring Putin and Zelenskiy to the table at the Elysee in Dec 2019. Somebody should reveal what really happened there: it was one of many missed opportunities on the road to catastrophe.
Aside: Last week the Ukrainian government issued an arrest warrant for Poroshenko, probably signaling a new round of the perennial internal power struggle among the oligarchs for expected succession after Zelenskiy.
On Feb 17, 2025, at 5:21 PM, Chas Freeman via Salon <salon@listserve.com> wrote:
We have entered a world in which might makes right. You can't recover at the negotiating table what you've lost on the battlefield.
Zelenskiy and Ukraine have been abused. Now they're screwed. Having cynically insisted (after March 2022) that Ukraine stay at war with Russia rather than make peace with it, we will now, with equal cynicism, settle the war over its head.
And the European members of NATO, who are being left out of our negotiations with Russia, will have no alternative to working out their own security architecture for Europe directly with Russia, as EU Council President António Costa has already apparently proposed.
A triumph of statecraft this is not.
Chas It is quite amazing to read these messages from experienced diplomats ignoring Russian aggression and praising a diplomatic effort that excludes the major players while conceding vital issues even before the negotiation begins. Is it all about power? Shouldn't the victimized party have a seat at the table? How about consulting with allies who have contributed as much as the US to the effort to enable Ukraine to defend itself.
Bravo, Jack. Zelensky is not even the legitimate President—his term expired May 2024 and he is a caretaker, and Kellogg has repeatedly said the US wants Ukraine elections this year and it was wrong to postpone elections due to the war. It is clear to me that
the Trump people want someone else in office in Kiev. Starmer vowing to send British troops to defend Ukraine is even more foolish, given the state of the British armed forces and their economy.
He doesn;t need ti agree, Once we are out he can choose between losing even more or accepting the deal. If the Europeans couldn't save him with our help, they certainly cannot without it.
jfm
From: "Eric Garris via Salon" < salon@listserve.com>
To: "salon" < salon@listserve.com>
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2025 3:51:58 PM
Subject: [Salon] Zelensky Says Ukraine Will ‘Not Recognize’ Upcoming US-Russia Talks
Zelensky Says Ukraine Will ‘Not Recognize’ Upcoming US-Russia Talks
The Ukrainian leader said his country was not invited to participate in the talks, which will take place in Saudi Arabia
by Dave DeCamp
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky
said Monday that Ukraine will “not recognize” upcoming talks between the US and Russia and denied that his country was invited to participate.
“Ukraine will not accept. Ukraine knew nothing about this. And Ukraine regards any negotiations about Ukraine without Ukraine as having no results,” Zelensky told reporters while visiting the UAE.
The Kremlin has
confirmed the peace talks with the US will be held in Saudi Arabia on Tuesday. The negotiations will involve high-level Russian and American officials, including Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and US Secretary of State Marco Rubio.
Zelensky
denied claims from US officials that Ukraine was invited. “Ukraine will not take part in the negotiations. Ukraine did not know they were planned. And the visit to the region was planned long before the US decided to meet Russia there,” he said.
Rubio arrived in Saudi Arabia on Monday, and he is expected to be joined by US National Security Advisor Mike Waltz and Steve Witkoff, President Trump’s Middle East envoy who has been involved in some diplomacy with Russia. Lavrov
will be joined by Yury Ushakov, an aide to Russian President Vladimir Putin.
Zelensky has said that European countries should be involved in the talks, but that idea has been rejected by both the US and Russia. Lavrov said Monday that most European leaders aren’t interested in peace.
“I don’t know what they could do at the negotiating table. If their aim is to cunningly extract a deceptive truce while secretly preparing for continued war—true to their habits and nature—then why invite them at all?” Lavrov said,
according to Russia’s TASS news agency.
While it’s still unclear how the war will end, the Trump administration’s policy toward Russia is a dramatic shift from the Biden administration, which essentially cut off high-level contacts with Moscow after the Russian invasion of Ukraine despite the
risk of nuclear war.
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